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ntfsclone makes Windows 2000 partition not boot after imagin 
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 16:38
Posts: 30
Post ntfsclone makes Windows 2000 partition not boot after imagin
I have already reported the problem I found via Ubuntu's bug tracker. However, got to thinking that perhaps here is the better place to post.

ntfsclone backup a Windows 2000 SP4 partition, reboot to Windows hang at mup.sys
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+sour ... bug/508988

I hand install Windows (Windows 2000 w/ SP4) to two partitions at the front of the drive.
Next install Ubuntu 9.10 behind Windows.
Apply Ubuntu OS updates, install ntfsprogs, reboot

I backup the image of Windows using ntfsclone

I reboot into Windows, and the boot hangs at Mup.sys

This is my first time trying this technique with Windows 2000. Previously I have had great success using ntfsclone to image Windows XP partitions, so thought to do the same with Windows 2000.

I have tried twice. Started over with the VM session. Same results, so I will stop wasting time and wait for a reply.

Attached here is the screen capture of how far the boot gets. Next I will attach a capture of Windows 2000 booting into Safe Mode which shows the last driver attempted to be loaded.


Attachments:
File comment: Screen shot of the initial boot hang
Screenshot-win2k.test2k [Running] - Sun VirtualBox - Boot Hang.png
Screenshot-win2k.test2k [Running] - Sun VirtualBox - Boot Hang.png [ 20.78 KiB | Viewed 26864 times ]

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Michael Lueck
Lueck Data Systems
Mon Jan 18, 2010 16:45
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 16:38
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Post Re: ntfsclone makes Windows 2000 partition not boot after imagin
Detail (Safe Mode) boot showing Mup.sys as the driver the boot hangs on.


Attachments:
Screenshot-win2k.test2k [Running] - Sun VirtualBox - Boot Hang Details.png
Screenshot-win2k.test2k [Running] - Sun VirtualBox - Boot Hang Details.png [ 45.22 KiB | Viewed 26859 times ]

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Michael Lueck
Lueck Data Systems
Tue Jan 19, 2010 03:29
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 16:38
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Post Re: ntfsclone makes Windows 2000 partition not boot after imagin
From my post to the official Ubuntu bug track system...

I just recreated this issue using Lucid 10.04 Alpha 2.

I did not even need to use ntfsclone to break the partition... merely added the Windows partitions to my fstab in read/write mode, reboot into Linux, reboot again into Windows and Windows 2000 will no longer boot.

Seems to me that read/write NTFS support and Windows 2000 do NOT play nice together.

How may I assist further?

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Michael Lueck
Lueck Data Systems


Sat Jan 23, 2010 20:47
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Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 17:22
Posts: 1286
Post Re: ntfsclone makes Windows 2000 partition not boot after imagin
Hi,

Quote:
merely added the Windows partitions to my fstab in read/write mode, reboot into Linux, reboot again into Windows and Windows 2000 will no longer boot.

That makes a significant difference. However in your first post you did not mention mounting by ntfs-3g. Can you confirm there are two different ways to trigger the error (cloning and mounting) ?
Quote:
How may I assist further?

An indication of your ntfs-3g version could be useful.

But finding a W2K configuration to identify the change is not straightforward... and making "ntfsclone --metadata" on original and modified partition could both yield the same error.

Regards

Jean-Pierre


Sat Jan 23, 2010 23:32
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 16:38
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Post Re: ntfsclone makes Windows 2000 partition not boot after imagin
Sorry, this forum system did not notify me of a reply, so I remembered my post this evening and came looking. I see a "notify me" check box, so will be sure to check it now.

I thought backing up the Windows 2000 image was breaking booting Windows 2000. I found I could break it merely by mounting the Windows 2000 NTFS partition R+W, thus updated this thread.

I am working with the Alpha release of Ubuntu 10.04, which has: 1:2009.4.4-1ubuntu5 level of the ntfs3g packages. NTFSProgs is at level 2.0.0-1ubuntu3 currently.

http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/ntfs-3g
http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/ntfsprogs

I have never tried NTFS R+W with any version of Windows 2000, only Windows XP, and have nothing but success with Windows XP.

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Michael Lueck
Lueck Data Systems


Thu Feb 18, 2010 05:13
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Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 17:22
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Post Re: ntfsclone makes Windows 2000 partition not boot after imagin
Hi,

Quote:
I thought backing up the Windows 2000 image was breaking booting Windows 2000. I found I could break it merely by mounting the Windows 2000 NTFS partition R+W, thus updated this thread.

ntfsclone was developed by another project, so I cannot provide much help on it. I can try to identify the problem after mounting by a recent ntfs-3g, but I do not have Windows 2000, so I need your cooperation to identify what is going on.

Basically I need to get the difference between the original partition and the one having been mounted, avoiding the use of ntfsclone which is likely to get or modify some significant data in a way inappropriate for Win2K which used an older version of ntfs.

Are you able to somehow run chkdsk and make the partition bootable again ?

How big is the partition ? are you able to "dd" the original partition and the one having been mounted, in order to locate the differences ?

Can you post the output of "ntfsinfo -m <partition>" ?

Regards

Jean-Pierre


Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:52
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 16:38
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Post Re: ntfsclone makes Windows 2000 partition not boot after imagin
I think I shall simply rebuild my test VM and recreate the environment.

How shall I capture the snapshot of the before / after state of the NTFS partition?

While installing Ubuntu, I will skip setting up mount points for the NTFS partitions, thus Linux should leave the NTFS partitions alone and not corrupt them.

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Michael Lueck
Lueck Data Systems


Thu Feb 18, 2010 15:17
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Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 17:22
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Post Re: ntfsclone makes Windows 2000 partition not boot after imagin
Hi,

Quote:
How shall I capture the snapshot of the before / after state of the NTFS partition?

That is the main question. I would like to avoid ntfsclone, which you suspect of modifying something important.
This is why I asked you how big the partition is. If I remember correctly, Win2K was installed from a single CD-Rom, so it should be possible to copy the raw partition into a file on another partition. If you are to install all again, I would advise to create a small Win2K partition (say 3GB).
To copy the raw partition, just use dd (likely to be slow) :
Code:
dd if=<partition> of=<destination-file>

"dd" is usable both ways, which means you can restore the partition from the copy, avoiding further reinstallations if you have enough disk space.
I suggest you boot Win2K twice or more, then you make the "before" copy, then you mount into Ubuntu and unmount, then you try to boot Win2K, and if it fails you make the "after" copy. The obvious aim being to limit differences not related to mounting into Ubuntu.

Regards

Jean-Pierre


Thu Feb 18, 2010 16:07
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 16:38
Posts: 30
Post Re: ntfsclone makes Windows 2000 partition not boot after imagin
Quote:
That is the main question. I would like to avoid ntfsclone, which you suspect of modifying something important.

No, as I have been trying to correct, I suspect merely mounting the NTFS partition R+W is enough to break it. At first I thought ntfsclone was breaking it.

Yes, I have enough VM disk space to make several snapshots with dd.

So I will:
1) dd backup before creating a mount point for the partition
2) Make the mount point and add an entry in fstab, IPL
3) Unmount the NTFS partition and dd backup after the partition is unmounted

Then shall I use the diff command to compare, or...???

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Michael Lueck
Lueck Data Systems


Thu Feb 18, 2010 16:23
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Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 17:22
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Post Re: ntfsclone makes Windows 2000 partition not boot after imagin
Hi again,

Quote:
No, as I have been trying to correct, I suspect merely mounting the NTFS partition R+W is enough to break it. At first I thought ntfsclone was breaking it.

It would be useful you confirmed that ntfsclone does no harm, because you could send metadata images for me to examine more efficiently.

Quote:
Then shall I use the diff command to compare, or...???

The first aim is to confirm that mounting is breaking something and to have two permanent images, one which is correct, one which is bad.
Then I would have dumped and compared the metadata using ntfsinfo (that is the point where I would be using diff). At that point if no significant difference is found, I would have to extract other data (boot sector, etc). However you apparently were able to start booting, and a few files could be read, this might be the point where the full ntfs driver is read and advanced processing, such as applying the log, can take place, so I would specifically examine some files.

Regards

Jean-Pierre


Thu Feb 18, 2010 17:59
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 16:38
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Post Re: ntfsclone makes Windows 2000 partition not boot after imagin
So at what point in the steps I outlined would you like me to take snapshots of the metadata?

Quote:
So I will:
1) dd backup before creating a mount point for the partition
2) Make the mount point and add an entry in fstab, IPL
3) Unmount the NTFS partition and dd backup after the partition is unmounted

Should I add a mount point, just not set it to automount? I assume like ntfsclone, the partition does not need to be mounted to capture the metadata, correct?

Windows 2000 install will not complete, and I have applied an update to VirtualBox since last time I tried to install Windows 2000. Sure hope VB did not break something. I just created a second new VM and am trying again in that VM session.

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Michael Lueck
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Thu Feb 18, 2010 19:51
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Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 17:22
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Post Re: ntfsclone makes Windows 2000 partition not boot after imagin
Hi,

Quote:
So at what point in the steps I outlined would you like me to take snapshots of the metadata?

So I will:
1) dd backup before creating a mount point for the partition
2) Make the mount point and add an entry in fstab, IPL
3) Unmount the NTFS partition and dd backup after the partition is unmounted

Before step 1 you should boot several times into Win2K. After the first boot, a lot of irrelevant changes are likely to occur, and only the result is meaningful as the "before state".
What is meaningful in step 2 is an effective mount/unmount. Making the mount point is just creating a directory. Adding an entry in fstab means to mount automatically at next reboot (not necessary at this stage).
The "after" state is after unmount, and after that you have to check Win2K cannot boot. If it can boot, mounting and unmounting did not harm the partition and the capture is irrelevant. Then repeat the procedure, inserting some simple action, such as create a file or a directory, between mount and unmount, then capture again and reboot into Win2K. It could be painful, but I cannot do it myself.

Quote:
Should I add a mount point, just not set it to automount?

You need to create a directory for mount point, but better keep control of when you mount and unmount, so avoid automount (do not update fstab).
Quote:
I assume like ntfsclone, the partition does not need to be mounted to capture the metadata, correct?

Even more, it has to be unmounted.

Regards

Jean-Pierre


Thu Feb 18, 2010 22:24
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 16:38
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Post Re: ntfsclone makes Windows 2000 partition not boot after imagin
Well the current situation is a bit awkward. The latest Alpha of Ubuntu Lucid will not install, so I had to use the Alternate installation CD, the text mode installer.

It did not set up mount points for the Windows partitions during the installation.

It did detect Windows with the Grub2 process, list it on the Grub menu, and trying to boot that fails at Mup.sys as usual.

I have a copy of the VM disk copied off when JUST Windows 2000 was installed in the VM session, so I have that to fall back to.

Please suggest a next step. Thanks!

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Michael Lueck
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Sat Feb 20, 2010 06:07
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Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 17:22
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Post Re: ntfsclone makes Windows 2000 partition not boot after imagin
Hi,

Quote:
It did not set up mount points for the Windows partitions during the installation.

It did detect Windows with the Grub2 process, list it on the Grub menu, and trying to boot that fails at Mup.sys as usual.


Well, if you did not mount your Win2K partition, it could not have been damaged by ntfs-3g.
I would rather suspect grub2.

Quote:
I have a copy of the VM disk copied off when JUST Windows 2000 was installed in the VM session, so I have that to fall back to.

Could you boot into the partition you have a copy of, before you installed Ubuntu ?

Quote:
Please suggest a next step. Thanks!

Maybe you install an older grub or even lilo (from a live CD).

Regards

Jean-Pierre


Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:42
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 16:38
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Post Re: ntfsclone makes Windows 2000 partition not boot after imagin
Quote:
I would rather suspect grub2.

I think I saw an option to select grub / grub2, so I will go back and look for that option.

Quote:
Could you boot into the partition you have a copy of, before you installed Ubuntu ?

Yes, I rebooted several times into Win2K just fine.

Quote:
Maybe you install an older grub or even lilo (from a live CD).

Yes, I will give that a try, again from the yesterday's alternate CD... will see what options that gave first.

Thanks!

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Michael Lueck
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Sat Feb 20, 2010 15:19
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Post Re: ntfsclone makes Windows 2000 partition not boot after imagin
I pulled down the Alpha 2 release alternate CD, and chose lilo instead of Grub2. Dual boot to Windows 2000 works beautifully.

Suggestions as to how I should explain my findings to Ubuntu?

Thanks!

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Michael Lueck
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Sat Feb 20, 2010 17:15
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Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 17:22
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Post Re: ntfsclone makes Windows 2000 partition not boot after imagin
Hi,

Quote:
I pulled down the Alpha 2 release alternate CD, and chose lilo instead of Grub2. Dual boot to Windows 2000 works beautifully.

Well, no surprise. Grub2 is not yet mature enough, and lilo is contemporary of Windows 2000. It can be a bug or just Win2K using a booting procedure which is not supported by grub2.

Quote:
Suggestions as to how I should explain my findings to Ubuntu?

Just detail the process you went through.

Regards

Jean-Pierre


Sun Feb 21, 2010 16:14
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 16:38
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Post Re: ntfsclone makes Windows 2000 partition not boot after imagin
As a follow-up: The shipping / release version of Ubuntu 10.04 has a working version of Grub2 which is able to dual-boot to both Windows 2000 and Windows XP.

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Michael Lueck
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Tue May 04, 2010 19:27
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